How DIY Artists Can Promote Their Music feat. Matt Bacon

Matt, if you only had 1 minute to give music artists the best advice you possibly could, what would you say? 1 minute on the clock. I think the key that people don't understand is how much of this is community building and word of mouth and really understanding that like, "Hey, if I'm sitting down and engaging with other relevant artists in my space, really good things start to happen." And so many people do not spend the time to engage with other artists in their space. Furthermore, most people do not have music or a brand that is clearly recognizable. Just see our friend talks about points of recognizability all the time and it's because, look, people know me cuz I have the hair and I have the cigar. I'm literally waving the cigar around cuz I know this is going to be snippeted. You have to have those points of recognizability for people to kind of grasp, "Here's who I am. Here's what I'm doing." Otherwise, you're not going to get anywhere, right? The final big leg is vertical video content, okay? You need to creating content showcasing your song. So many artists drop a song and then don't do anything to like talk about it ever again. Create content around the song consistently all the time because that's how that's the tool you have that is free that is most likely to get you in front of more people faster. Heck yeah. Nailed it. Less than a minute. So, you've you we've known each other for a while now. Um it's kind of amazing that it took this long for us to do an official thing on on the channel on the pod. Uh but you have a company called Dropout Media. You've worked with a bunch of like quite big artists that a lot of people here are going to know. I'll just name out some that I have on your website here. Uh Boy Genius, Cannibal Corpse, AFI, uh Killswitch Engage, LCD Soundsystem, Neurosis, Whitechapel, Autumn Kings, uh Mitski, and uh I know just from talking to you that you work with a bunch of other awesome people as well. Um how did you get into this whole music marketing thing? Like I know it started in 2015, which is crazy. You've been doing this for 11 years. But like, how did you Yeah. >> That's Do you feel old yet? Um how did you actually get into this? So, when I was 14, I start I had just moved to Paris from Pennsylvania. And I didn't have uh I like you know, I just moved there and I was a kid like I didn't have a lot of friends, you know? Um and what I knew though was like I liked heavy metal. And I specifically liked black metal. And I knew that, you know, okay, well, what do people do to like find that community? And I was like, "Oh, okay, I could start a blog." And I didn't really know how to do that, but with um my best friend Heroin Dan, um who's clean now. Very proud of him. >> like, wait, why is it called Heroin Dan? Uh so, it's the obvious reason. Yeah, but you know, that's that's what we call him. It's just but he enjoys that that's part of the legend now. Uh but basically, we started like a heavy metal blog called Two Guys Metal Reviews that I ran until like 2 years ago, maybe? Like posting pretty much every day. And it was just like through that, I started like writing about classic records I liked or that I just discovered cuz when you're 14, 15, you're discovering all this music. But then, I was trying to understand how to get more views. And I started I made a post on the Ultimate Guitar Forum. And I was like, "Hey, is anyone in a band? I'll write about you." And a ton of people answered. And this is like I was like 14. This was like before I understood like how music PR works, how anything works, right? I was just like I thought if you're in a band, you must be a big deal. And so, I wrote literally like thousands of reviews of unsigned bands. Like so many. And I think I was doing like at least one a day for like years. I did that for years. And through that, as a high schooler, I met a bunch of people I'm still friends with. Like I think I wrote the first ever Party Cannon review and now like a guy I work with closely manages them. And one of the things I did a lot was I was doing a lot of interviews. I was doing like a lot of interviews. Like every weekend, I'd go to shows and interview bands. Um so that by the time I was 19, I'd interviewed like Judas Priest and ACD like Phil from ACDC and like Yeah. everything. >> the the YouTuber uh Ola Englund or Ola Englund? I forgot how to say Not personally, but I know who that is. Yeah, he he I believe he started his channel the same way. He's in I think S- He's in Sweden, yeah. Sweden, yeah. And And he was saying that he would basically look for metal bands that were coming into town on their tour. Yeah. And then he would just hit him up and see if they could do an interview and he would just show up with his camera stuff and just interview them. And now he is like one of the biggest metal platforms on the internet. Uh it all started off just with like "Hey, want to chat about your band?" Basically. So, like there was that and then that led to like booking shows and I had like a little record label and I was managing bands and whatever. Then I moved back to America. I uh dropped out of college after like a year uh cuz that was a huge waste of time. What what was your major you were on for? Philosophy [snorts] and music. Oh, yeah, that sounds like a bad >> [laughter] >> That sounds like a bad financially. Yeah, well, I had a full ride and I dropped out. >> Oh, really? Yeah. Wait, it was philosophy and music? Philosophy and music. Okay, so you were like dual majoring. Yeah, but it was just like I was like booking hardcore shows and like 200 kids would come out. And then I'd have to like go to philosophy class the next day with a bunch of kids who didn't do the reading. Yeah. And like yeah. You know, it was just not really a good use of time. And so, I dropped out, but like I dropped out into like a pretty decent like music PR job for a 19-year-old to have. Um and that job kind of fell apart and then I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] Now I have to figure something out." And so, I started doing a bunch of the bands from that PR company were like, "Yeah, but we still want to work with you because you like understand this marketing thing." And I remember being like, "Marketing? Okay." And like having to figure that out, but then I got clients that way. Then I started managing a band called Tiger Cavalry who got really big at one point. And we started going on tour. Uh and that was sick. And then but like through that sort of like age 14 to 20 experience of like just doing stuff to help the scene and like learn and grow and learn and grow and interview bands and try new things, that kind of gave me like the framework to really be like, "Okay, here's what this needs to look like." You know, uh so that I could slowly start to build something meaningful. And then it really got uh significantly bigger. Uh and so, that was like the moment where it like started to really like pop off. And Bacon's Bits started in 2018 uh on the recommendation of a friend where it was like and I think it was like a Russell Brunson thing where it's like, "Oh, if you make a video every day about what you're an expert in in a life, your year will change." And a year later, I was like speaking at a metal conference. And then like that led to all this other stuff. Bacon's Bits, by the time it it was something where it you had like a big following, was like a 5 year 5 years of work. Uh so, I was like 6,000 posts in or something. Wow. When it got But like I was already like making a good living and had employees. Yeah. Like before it blew up. And like this is something that people I think find don't really know, but find interesting is like so, my Instagram is like 10x'd in the last 2 and 1/2 years. My company has not 10x'd. The company's grown. Like there was a bump, but it wasn't like "And now you're rich." You know what I mean? It's kind of a bummer. That's a a big thing that uh I've been mindful of with with my channel as well. Like every so often, I'd have videos go for me viral. You know, like they'll they'll get 100,000 views in a relatively short period of time, but it's a video on Spotify Wrapped. Like the most recent one I can think of is like I did a video about showing the Spotify Wrapped for artists and Spotify Wrapped as a listener. And it it very clearly got pushed out to a wider audience than what normally defines like who watches my channel. And the views were crazy, but I noticed none of the things that actually impact like my business moved whatsoever. In fact, that video seemed to have a worse performance on that because it was going to a group of people that didn't care. And so, every time I'm doing a video, there's certain videos I make that are for like this is to amplify the like the volume of views and brand perception, but these are videos that are good for getting like the best, most relevant people who I can actually help the most and who my services will be most relevant for. And they're very rarely There's some videos that are kind of the same. Um where if I'm doing like a big tutorial on how to get a million your first million streams in a year, that video can do very well from an audience growth perspective, but it's very targeted. Um and I would imagine for you when you're doing videos on like how to handle like how to manage your like inter-band relationships, which I assume you've done things like that. Like that's probably not getting you marketing clients. But when you do videos talking about like what what distributor to use or like how to set up a Facebook ad campaign or whatever, that's probably getting you the the clients more than the you know, DistroKid versus CD Baby, you know? Yeah. Yeah, definitely, but I also think it's important to do stuff that establishes authority. You know, I think I think like the larger mission of Bacon Bits beyond like cool, this thing gets me an audience which I can monetize. Which is very nice. Um you know, I think the larger mission for me really is like preaching DIY culture to the world. Yeah. And like >> [snorts] >> you know, like I always tease my girlfriend that like I want to retire and just like be in hardcore documentaries. >> [laughter] >> You know, and just be like cuz like yeah, there's a documentary that cuts Dave Grohl, me, Phil Anselmo. And I was like, yeah. And when I met my girlfriend, that was like I sent that to her just to be like, look, here's a cool thing I did cuz you like this artist it's about it's about Rhino. And she was like Yeah, that's >> [laughter] >> Um you got to take your wins where you can, you know. >> [laughter] >> But yeah, but like you know, but like but but seriously to me a lot of it is like yes, making money is great. It's great to do that and it's great to help people in general, but very specifically I am trying to bring DIY culture to as large an audience as I can and to help people understand that you have the power to do things that you do not know you have the power to do within music if you take the initiative and you have the power to build your own community and lift people up and do something really great for the people around you. Like what what what what exactly what actions do you think artists should take to kind of pursue that path? Which I guess is the kind of going down to more specific music marketing tactics. Cuz obviously there's a path where artists get signed to a label and they the label kind of does the stuff for them, right? And but they're giving up a chunk of their ownership either very big chunk or a smaller chunk depending on where they're at and and what the deal is, but um in some ways labels can make a lot of sense, but for a lot of artists don't realize how much they can actually do themselves. So when an artist is watching this and they're like, I'm just a little artist, I'm getting started, like what are the things I should do to get going? I don't even think it's about the whether or not you need a label argument because I think the statistics point to very clearly yes, you do need a label. Everyone Well, like like how many of your favorite artists who are not local to you or not like super niche things that you really like cuz you're a weird nerd, how many of those things are unsigned? Very few. Or like like Uh for me a good amount cuz I listen to kind of like niche stuff. But they didn't start off independent. They started off on Sumerian. Like Periphery for example started off on Sumerian and then they started their own label and Yeah, and that's another >> you listen to everyone listens to are not independent. They might be on an indie label, in fact they probably are on an indie label, but they're not independent. Yeah, and I you know, it's like even like [ __ ] Russ. I was looking at his Wikipedia page the other day. You know that [ __ ] was on Columbia? Like that's what blew him up. >> album ever by far was released on Columbia. Yeah, like he definitely like got like a minor hit on his own, which is impressive. I don't want to take that from him, but like that [ __ ] dude. Yeah, that was the first one of the first things I uh like learned about him. Like when I first heard his mentality about being independent and releasing a song a week and all that. And I remember looking at his catalog. He's released a crazy amount of music. He but basically he's posting every day every week strategy got him the label deal. The label deal like took him to another level. And then he left the label and was able to spin that off into a very very successful >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that's totally different. Also, that was 15 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's just it drives me [ __ ] nuts. Um A lot of people quote watch Russ like he's like you know, God's greatest gift to music marketing or whatever. And there's some advice that's great, but some of it is I think very applicable to 15 years ago SoundCloud. Yeah, there's there's a bunch of things, but whatever. What I'm trying to say is what can DIY what can small independent artists do right away? The first thing is go to shows. Like if like go to small club shows in your niche in your town. And if you live in a population center of over a quarter million people, which 90% of the people listening to this do, that is happening in your town on an at least weekly basis. I guarantee it. Assuming also you live in North America or most of Europe or the rich part of Brazil. Yeah. Like like you know what I'm saying? Like yes, I understand if you're in a city >> don't I I don't live in a big city. I got to live in a city with a population of like 60,000 people or something. But like I live 45 minutes from Boston. Yeah, like you live in a population center, right? Like there's stuff going on. Like you don't live in I'm not in the middle of nowhere. I'm in I'm in Massachusetts, which >> But there like also like there's a there's a scene in Samarkand if we have a Uzbekistani listener. Um Yeah. But like but what I'm saying is like these things are happening. Go find them and be a part of that community. Go hang out with people. Go talk to people. Build relationships. That's big thing number one. That is literally how every good thing in my life in music basically every good thing in my life basically comes from having gone to a lot of shows. Okay. Now, second, just drop music. Don't overthink it. Like yes, your first song the production probably isn't going to be what you want it to be. You know, your first song there's probably going to be some stuff you could fix with the songwriting. Guess what? You have a whole future to get better. My first videos kind of sucked. Your first videos not great. >> I saw your old YouTube videos before your new batch of videos and they were pretty rough. But they were like 10 years ago or something or whatever. >> Yeah. And Now you've made thousands of videos >> [clears throat] >> and you're just better at it. Yeah. So it's like it's fine, you know. Um so I think that's a big piece that people can't get their heads around cuz like I think what you have to remember is like having a song that you paid someone $100 to mix and have on Spotify puts you ahead of 99.9% of people who have ever picked up an instrument. Straight up. Yeah. Like straight up. So >> [clears throat] >> fine. And then I think finally it's just like create content around the music you are making. Right? And guess what? We talked about this on the podcast literally earlier today my time. Literally the CEO of Instagram came out and said yeah, like raw content is kind of what's better now, actually. And that means you don't need to worry about everything being super produced or nice or whatever. It means you can just like film yourself singing your song no accompaniment, whatever, but you're just showing off the hook. That can work. I've seen that work, you know? You can do like I like there's this whole like weird trend of people like cleaning their houses with their song as the sound and like some text on screen about their song or they're just like at their job and they just film themselves like at their desk and like some sound text on >> Starbucks workers. Yeah. Whatever. And so it's like or Starbucks partners rather. I worked at Starbucks for 6 years and everyone is a partner is what they the language [laughter] is. So um but what I'm trying to say is like you know, it doesn't need to be fancy. It just needs to be there because like I said in my minute of what it takes is like you have a tool that can get you in front of more people than any other tool that you have for free. So just use that tool. What do you say to all the people that that don't tour have no interest in it or like they want to do everything online. Like is that is there viable equivalent or should they just get over it and find a local community in some way? I think that you can find community in I think doing it live and in person is much easier. Yeah. Um but I think you can do a similar thing on Discord forums, on Reddit threads, and wherever. You know, and just reaching out and building connections with like the right relevant people. You know, but I think that you know, or just like even on Facebook. Facebook is like a weirdly good networking platform still. Especially in rock and metal. It's like kind of bizarre, actually. You know, and like reaching out to people via DMs. Like you can make those connections, you know, but I also think you know, maybe maybe even if maybe like a local scene isn't like as crucially important cuz you're not playing live, there's still like events those types of go to. You know, and it's like Nam or we're going to meet in person for the first time, you know, or like again, do like the problem with doing it online is there's so much noise and there's so and especially now there's so much like is this a bot? Yeah. >> You know, like one of the things that kills me cuz like I'm super fast on the reply time generally is like I'll [snorts] get like an email or a DM asking for help and I'll be like hey, what's up? And they'll be like is this a bot? And it's like No, it's just it's just just me. Yeah, I've some some clients of mine have like I've seen their email threads between them and you. And I was like holy holy balls Matt is quick to reply. Like they'll send you a thing at middle of the night and you reply within like 20 minutes. And and all your emails are like super quick and snappy like in terms of length, but they're super quick. So people are hitting you up and you're back with them like within the hour. >> And it's it's very impressive how quick you are to follow up. Like in that I would imagine does a wonder for you. Getting getting more a little tactical for a sec. Um what do you think just kind of rapid fire Okay. >> are some of the best marketing tactics? If you were to make a bullet point list of like single word or like individual thing like tactic one, tactic two, tactic three. And then after that let's do the worst most often waste of time marketing tactics. Now I'm like can I figure out how to explain to express a marketing tactic in one word? Um >> Well, it can be like a few like for example, um you know, like Spotify playlist promotion or PR or radio or whatever. >> the best stuff is video content even if it's relatively basic, but posted but the best stuff is video content. The second best thing actually the best thing is consistency. That's the one word marketing tactic. The second best thing is video content done consistently over time. Right? That's a big part of the game. The second the third thing is consistent releases ideally that bring different people into your universe. Not fans, but other collabs or working with different engineers or whatever. Um just to kind of build those connections. Um you know, I think hand-to-hand combat like direct outreach to fans who who give a [ __ ] Making sure you're replying to every comment, replying to every DM. That matters so much. Yeah. And people don't want to do it, you know? Um I think that's like crucially crucially important especially to get your first thousand fans. It's all hand-to-hand combat. Like you're not going to magically get those people. Um you know, uh And then like And again and I talk about this a lot. Like those are kind of the free strategies I highlight, you know, as along with getting everything set up properly, which isn't really a marketing tactic, but like having a Spotify bio and like Spotify canvas on all your videos helps a lot. Right? Like stuff like that that like present like pro presentation. Even if we were to kind of say >> [clears throat] >> even if we were to act like Spotify doesn't care if you're a good citizen of Spotify. For example. If your Spotify looks good, people take you more seriously. They will spend more time on your [ __ ] If your Spotify looks like crap, they're going to be like oh, this person isn't serious. I only have so many listening hours in my life. Let's go look at something more serious. If someone doesn't have a Spotify like artist picture >> [clears throat] >> or bio or images in their thing, I or social media's linked, I kind of instantly just assume they're an AI project. >> basically like this is what I'm saying, right? Yeah. So it's like that pro presentation matters a lot if you want to get taken seriously, you know? Um And then I think in terms of paid strategies, it's really just like my favorite paid strategy is ads. And like yeah, I run an ad agency, so maybe I'm just like a shameless self-promoter, you know? Um but like >> That's for sure. Um but uh you know, but like I the reason I believe in ads is most other promotion strategies paid promotion strategies you don't have as much control over. There's a lot of trusting people for their connections. Yeah. And when the money is spent, it's spent. And But influencer marketing for example might involve spending 5K up front one time. The money's spent, it's gone and then you wait and see what happens. Whereas with ads, you might start at $30 even if you're spending five grand for your ads, you might start off at 30 a day or 50 a day. Or even lower. Why not? >> you can adjust over the course of a month, two months, whatever the Yeah, and like even with influencer marketing if you're doing it where you're doing like 20 to $100 influencer buys like a certain chunk of those like just like there is a way to like kind of like really game it. Yeah. >> You know, but A that's a lot more work. And B a certain amount of the time you're going to just throw down $100 and it's going to be wasted. And you know, which is which is part of the cost-benefit of influencer marketing, you know? I'm not really a huge fan in general, but like all I'm trying to say is you can't trust that [ __ ] all the time. And that's how I feel about a lot of different marketing strategies, you know? I think I think many of them have their place. But I also don't think that we need to be acting like like like we have also have to acknowledge that like one gives you live results that you can directly track back to it. Yeah. Maybe start with that one. Yeah. Which is the best, right? >> Yeah, that's all I have to say, right? Like cuz I think there's really good work to be done in PR. I think there's really good work to be done in radio and influencer marketing and whatever. But like that's just my thesis. Um in terms of stuff that doesn't work, uh paying to get on playlists really bad idea. Not mediocre idea. Um unless it's like very very curated. And I think that's the problem I have with like a lot of the submit hubs of the world is like if you get the right playlist, you're good. But very frequently you spent your money and then you're like oh, actually none of these fit me. You know, um or like one fits you. And like that kind of sucks. Um you know, and then I think um So yeah, so that's like and I just have so many people trying to talk to me about playlist marketing and I'm just like half of these things are botted. If you're not a perfect fit, it's [ __ ] up your algorithm. And it's like the streams go boom and then they just go away after Yeah. because it doesn't really provoke the algorithm the same way in my experience. Um so yeah, so there's >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I I I on our site like we sell playlisting services in addition to ads and like no matter how much we try to tell people like do most of your budget on ads, playlisting should be like the supplement you use. Like I've pondered making it so you the only way you can buy playlisting through us is in combination with an ad campaign. >> Yeah. We haven't gone that far yet cuz like what I what I want people to do is like hey, you're going to drop 3K in a song for example in marketing and you're running let's say either all of that in ads or if you're going to do some playlisting do like 10% of it in the playlisting. So most of your stuff is just active streams and then once you see the algorithm taking off, then you drop in playlisting. Yeah. A lot of people I don't even think it it makes sense and so we've been debating like do we force people to to do that or do we just let people do what they want. And and then that comes to the argument of like if you're an agency owner it should you be the arbiter of what people do or do not who just want to pay for a service to have it executed? And you know, I'm sure you wrestle with that over time as well. Yeah. >> Like when we reject clients for ads it's usually cuz we don't think it'll work, you know, whether it's because the music's not there yet or we just think the the genre is a little tougher or whatever it is. They have unrealistic run unrealistic expectations is another reason we reject people. Um and some people fight us back and they're like like just take my money and run my campaign. I I acknowledge that you don't think it'll go well, but like just do it anyways, you know? And Yeah. >> That's that's that's a valid argument, too. But it's it's kind of how do you draw that line of um what do we say yes to, what do we say no to, what do we force people to do versus what do we just provide? Yeah, basically. You know, um So that's the camp that's the tactic I can talk about without getting in trouble. Um And then you have PR and radio which which you mentioned is actually a good thing once someone has reached a certain level. >> Yeah, I think that they're hard for early stage. I think radio is really really really good, but in America. But I think that other things need to be going along with it in my experience. And also if you're not writing to a particular format it becomes exponentially harder. Um So there's that. You know, um I also think like PR like I think it's valuable, but I think you need to have like a very clear brand, and I think you need to have some organic word of mouth, and I think if you Google kind of up-and-coming artists on like the 25,000 Spotify monthly's first to four on the cool tour in their genre level, you'd be shocked how little PR a lot of those people have done. Like >> Yeah. But cuz also like people aren't reading the music blogs. >> [gasps] >> Um And like like there's there's value to like >> It's like more of something you do to give your existing fans more stuff to consume, build your brand. >> It doesn't create new fans. It deepens relationships for existing fans. Yeah. Is what I always say. Is that like it's really valuable when you're trying to deepen relationships, but before you're at that place, you know, I see a lot of people spending a lot of money to get articles that don't get clicked on. Um I see people spending $9,000. Like they did 3 months at $3,000 a month with a PR agency. And they got some really cool write-ups in some really reputable places, interviews, etc. And they couldn't tell if that that $9,000 even got them a thousand streams or even a hundred followers. Like that that's how little impact cuz they weren't doing any ads, weren't really doing social media, like it essentially did nothing when it came to streaming, social media growth, ticket sales, merch sales, whatever. And again, like I don't think they're bad tactics. I just think they have a place in the ecosystem. Yeah. Um so, I don't want to list them in the bad tactic world. Uh like with playlist paying to get on playlists. Um The stuff The other stuff I think is bad is like spamming a bunch of people you don't know with your reels. I have people who send me reels like every day until I block them, and I'm like what do you think is going to happen? What do you think I can do for you? Like unless you've really done your research to really understand like who I'm connected with, which you haven't, like Okay. The spam thing You you probably get this on TikTok, too, where someone will comment and be like, "I'm a I'm a 19-year-old so-and-so artist from blah blah blah. Please check out my new song." I'm like, "This is like not This is just This makes me want to never listen to you because you're just spamming my videos Yeah. >> stuff. Yeah. So, it's like that, you know, um And also just like low-quality um When I say low-quality content Like low Yeah, low-quality content, right? Cuz just cuz something is basic does not mean it is low quality. Right? Like there's plenty of like my content is pretty basic. Your YouTube content is honestly like pretty basic. Yeah. Like it's not phenom Like it's not super fancy. It's very high quality, though. And so, I think that like you know, but simultaneously I see people posting you know, uh I see people posting stuff that like looks terrible. And or like is like a weird filter. Like you can tell like like you know, like the boomer posting. And it's like pay attention to the aesthetic of your genre, bro. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like Like pay attention to like this is what I'm about, and this is like what our genre is about because like I think so many people just aren't curating taste, and I think that works against them. Mhm. So, yeah. That's kind of what I got. Nice. And obviously, um I'm assuming you would say no bots as well. Well, [laughter] yeah, but I don't even know Does that need to still be said? Shockingly, Yeah. >> uh I I've Yeah, some people I found I've had people ask me like, "Oh, can I just use this online tool to get So, surprisingly, no, but yeah. I think that that hopefully goes without saying. Yeah. And it's like that's like a whole separate That's a whole separate issue cuz it's just like >> [gasps] >> um I'm trying to find the right word. It's just I mean, I guess Drake needs to hear that advice. >> [laughter] >> Um But it's like >> know, I mean, this will be in the past once this video goes live, but but Drake's being hit with a major lawsuit for potentially botting upwards of 50% of his streams through some online gambling scam. Yeah. So, like point being like you will get caught, and people see, and they will make fun of you. You know, um and the other tactics I think don't work are like playing crappy shows just to play crappy shows, like playing your hometown every week. Mhm. Um You know, like shockingly, a A&R rep from Sony is not going to randomly wander into The Crab Shack in Tacoma, you know, on a Tuesday. Like Be be strategic. Come on. So, yeah. That's what I got. Cool, man. Well, what do you want to leave the people with? Any last-minute words of wisdom or places they should go find you other than the obvious ones? I mean, dropoutmedia.net. Is it dot net? >> Net. Dot net. Yep. I sometimes wonder about how much business I lose cuz I don't have dot com. Um And then @bacon'sbit @bacons.bits on Insta and TikTok, and bacon'sbits on YouTube, you know. Actually, random random question before we wrap. Where did the bacon thing come from? I was 13 and getting in touch with black metal dudes on the internet, and it was the peak of the bacon craze. What What is the bacon craze? Like when everything was like epic bacon. Oh, [clears throat] okay. >> that cringe [ __ ] Elon Musk is into. Like Got you. Thank you so much for having me. I just want to point out before we wrap up that uh so much of my success is directly built on Andrew's videos on YouTube explaining how to do ads, and I learned how to do it significantly better over the pandemic because of Andrew, and that has made me a lot of money and has made a lot of good things happen in my life, and so I am very much in his debt forever and always. Um Thanks, man. >> But otherwise, you know, follow for more, DM for private consultation. Okay, brother. Thanks for coming on.