From YouTuber to Touring Artist feat. Keyan Houshmand

Keon, if you only had one minute to give music artists the best advice you possibly could, what would you say? One minute on the clock. >> My advice uh to any aspiring musicians that are looking to kind of get ahead would be to just do it. Um and it can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. But one thing that I've noticed um in a lot of people that I look up to who I'm now fortunate to call friends, the one trait that they all have in common, no matter if they play guitar, no matter if they're a producer, no matter if they work in marketing, is that even when things suck, they just have the drive to do it anyway and just get it done. And that characteristic will just take you above, I think, 85% of anyone else who's trying to do what we're doing. I'm sure you can agree with that sentiment, but that would be my 46 seconds of advice. >> Nailed it. Yeah, totally. That's the kind of the biggest one of the biggest trends I've I've seen from just talking to people who would be in what you'd call someone that's made it in music. Um what obviously that means a million different things to different people >> but they they all echo this thing that like >> I feel like the only reason that I have made it so to speak is that I've just never stopped and a lot of them have said they feel like if obviously a lot of people don't make music their their day job and their career but it's really like anyone that's actually trying for like a long time who's honest with themselves and who gets better and iterates like they do pull pull it off. It's just a matter of like most people just quit before they pull it off. >> Exactly right. Yeah. I mean like I I always refer not to like quote Mr. Beast, but there's this Mr. Beast thing that he always says where it's like he's talking about making videos, but this could like be with anything. It's like if you um make every single video 1% better every time, by the next 100 videos it will be 100% better. Um, and I think that that sentiment rings so true cuz 1% in video editing could be like, oh, I'm going to put key framing in this video or I'm going to do a slightly better color grade. Um, but in music it could be like, oh, like I'm going to learn how to do this or I'm going to learn how to do that. But it's it's all well and good to say that like, oh yeah, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. But my point is that the difference is that the people that go, yeah, I will do it and I'm going to do it no matter what. That's that's the thing that brings things over the line, I think, for me anyway. >> Yeah. And you in particular um on your YouTube channel, you've been uploading videos for eight years. >> Really? >> You had three Yeah. Well, your first video was eight years ago. It was at a It was like a school music thing. So, >> Oh jeez, that was eight years ago, wasn't it? >> But like your first I I would call more serious one as little like seven years ago when it looks like you had a proper background and a room setup. um a lot of periphery in the early days. Yes, probably get into that later, but 382 videos uh and you you have 73,000 subscribers and you also got another like 40 somethingk or 50k on Instagram and obviously there's other socials too. But like a lot of people probably ask you because I get this question. It's like >> how do I grow on YouTube? And it's like upload 382 videos, right? like they don't they see the subscriber number, they don't look at the video number next to it because that that's really like in my opinion that's the answer. Obviously, there's a lot of things you learn along the way like you probably didn't upload thumbnails for the first 50 videos. You you probably didn't fix your sound for 50 videos or like whatever, right? There's all these like bad things you learn, but really it's just doing 400 videos like makes you good at making videos. >> Yeah. And even today, you know, it's not like I sit here today and go like, "Oh yeah, this video that I made yesterday was perfect." It's never perfect. Like it could always be better. Um, but I think the key thing is that if I look back like even 3 years ago, some of the videos that were being made and everything from like the color grade to the camera position to like the lighting and everything, like I look back on it, I'm like, "Oh, this could be so much better." But that's good cuz then if it has gotten better since then, then that shows progress. If I just thought that it all looked the same and oh yeah, it's a YouTube video and that's it. Like that was the only kind of like common denominator then you know. Yeah. >> Totally. and and you've you've done kind of a rare thing in that you and I might be wrong, but you started off in the YouTube internet content creator world and you bridged that into like turning it into a live band, right? Like you weren't a live guitarist that started posting on YouTube. >> You were a YouTuber that transitioned into launching a band that actually like tours and opens with other actual band. Like you you made it into an actual music project. >> Yeah. Um, which I feel like a lot of people don't bridge that gap. Like that's a hard that's kind of a hard gap to bridge to go from like bedroom guitarist to to touring professional. >> Um, what was that journey like? >> Hard. Um, it was it was very difficult. It still is difficult. Um, but the reason I couldn't even give you like a proper reason why I did it. I think it just I think my mind was kind of set on it. I was like, "Oh, yeah, the the next logical thing is to do this." And I just kind of ran with it. Um, but if I thought if I had the hindsight now, like in all honesty, if you were talking about like quote unquote making it and stuff like that, again, like everyone's definition of of making it is different. Like some people could look at that transition and be like, "Oh, okay. Now Kean has made it cuz now he's playing shows and doing that stuff." But the reality is is that I would be a lot more well off if I just kept to content creation and just like really put my eggs in that basket. So on another hand, people be like, "Oh, well maybe not yet." Like, you know, you're losing it money every time you tour. But for me, it's like I I enjoy doing that more. I have a lot of conversations about like this what we're talking about right now with a lot of people that are close to me in this circle. Connor Kaminsky for example. Um and the conclusion that we always come to is that like that process like you mentioned like what was it like like as hard as it is um we can recognize that it's always better off to do it that way I think because how do I explain it like I'm I'm always I'm super super super conscious of the I guess like people's perception of me as a person and an artist and a content creator and everything else that's attached to that. um given that yes, it did start from like very I guess quote unquote humble beginnings. It still is. It's much of the same now still. Um but you know, you look back on those videos five six years ago um with like the shoddy angles and the the choppy audio and all that stuff. Um uh to where it is now, it was a very conscious effort to kind of keep that perception the same way. Um because everything is to me it's all relatability. Um and that has to carry through to the music that I create. Um and the serious stuff like all the serious stuff like playing shows and and playing music like there has to be a sense of relatability there. So like this notion of like um I guess I guess I can only speak for myself like what some people would consider as like the guy who made it who like started doing YouTube videos and all that stuff. like keeping that perception is super important um because or to me anyway because that's where it started from. So as soon as you start deviating away from that people start to lose interest I find. Um, so even in like you know the the process of the songs being made to the tours like I'm very >> uh open about you know how we tour, what our inear rig is, how how it all gets done. You know I'm not trying to hide anything. Like this is what it is. This is where I started. This is where it's going. You can come along with me on the journey and watch all the videos and watch me like stream like the creation of the songs and like writing them on stream on Twitch and stuff like that. It's it's it is what it is. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not trying to um guess like uh how do I explain it? Like be an artist now where like you never say anything and you just drop music and you you know what I mean? There's a it's a because of the origin and where it is now that gap in the middle had to be met otherwise it wouldn't have went well. Um, >> you've kept the content creator aspect of of what you do very strong. Like you're you made the bridge to artist touring artists, but you didn't give up on the origin of being like a content creator, which I have seen some people do. Like they they kind of switch to artist mode and they stop. I don't know. They kind of switch their their brand and everything. But like you're still you're still covering music gear. You're still I mean that that's you're still doing guitar tutorials. You're still like interviewing people and collaborating with other artists. So like there's still the artist side, but then there's like this the what you would consider guitar content or whatever. Right. >> Exactly. Right. And I guess like >> you're still doing that and it's all kind of integrated in a way. Like I I would assume you're using >> Yeah. >> your own music in in a lot of stuff now more than ever. Um, and like I see even even four weeks ago for your song Arhythmia, you had um you did a DAW project walkthrough which which is clever because like the thumbnail is how to make modern metal. Me as a person who makes modern metal was like, "Oh, this guy's got some pretty nice sounding recordings and guitar tone. I would love to see how he does his project, right?" And then hopefully I'm watching that I'm like, "Oh, this song slaps. let me go to Spotify that's in my my my dope instrumental metal guitar playlist, right? And then like a lot of people are doing a similar thing and >> um that's kind of the integration of content and artistry in my opinion. >> Yeah. Um I'm again like super conscious of that too where it's like now that both of these things have to like combine into one entity, it's in my best interest and I enjoy doing it of course. Um that's always a prerequisite of like you know bridging the music and the content in one. So whether it is like door project walkthroughs or like you know u guitar playing tutorials like I there was like an excerpt um excerpt from my song Swell which is on YouTube where I'm going through the intro riff but the the video is titled like how to play modern metal like string skipping uh riff tapping all that stuff and it has all those techniques that you would want to learn if you're doing the modern metal stuff but the song and the riff that it happens happens to be when I'm going through the video is my song so that if again if you did enjoy it you can um go and stream it or watch the video or whatever it is. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I was you know in terms of research for this interview video um this chat I saw a video you did in 2023 where someone asked you what what would be your dream collaboration and it was Misha Mansor. >> Is that what >> since then? That's what you said. Yeah. Yeah, you sent me some answer from Periphery, which would be your dream collaboration. Um, since then you've collaborated with Nollie on on your most recent EP. Um, which is pretty pretty baller. Like that's a pretty epic collab. Um, and you've had you've had a bunch of other awesome collabs, right, on both your YouTube channel, like I saw recently you did a chat with um, uh, Manuel from Unprocessed. >> Yeah. >> And like that band's pop. He's kind of popping off too um in the guitar circles, but like his band's also like crushing it. Their album, their new album slaps. Like you said all these cool collaborations both on the YouTube side and the music side. How do you go about pulling that off? Like what's obviously you have some like momentum behind you in terms of like your audience size. So there's that being unofficial thing, but um what's your strategy when you're like I want to work with someone or I want to introduce like what do you how do you do it or has it all been just accidental? Uh honestly like when I when I think about that question um I don't know like I guess like with like uh Nollie for example um that came after literally years of like making videos um about Periphery like being a partner with GGD um you know making modern and massive like two 2018 YouTube videos and stuff like that and you know going to like the IR packs and and all that stuff and that relationship you know even though I hadn't actually met Nollie in person sat down and had a conversation with him even if I didn't like message him directly that much like there were instances here and there like story replies and stuff like that which again it all helps I guess but just being within I guess like his world and his space and associating with his colleagues I guess there is that kind of like mutual understanding thing where Now, after all of that time, um it was still a stretch to even ask him to be on that song, but we thought, you know what, at least like I feel like I'm in a a place now like I'm confident enough to like ask him like he doesn't have to say yes, but I feel like it's not completely out of the ordinary if um Connor and I like ask him, would you be interested? And he was just very like, yeah, let's do it. And that sometimes like it pulls off like that where you you don't think it's actually going to happen and then it does. And um that was very nice. Ollie is now like after having hanging out like hung out with him doing the video and stuff like that and you know we chat a little bit more these days but he's super nice and he's very genuine and he you know he drove to our shoot from wherever he was in UK at the time and we hung out we got like lunch and stuff like that. It was a very genuine interaction. It wasn't treated like a business exchange you know what I mean? Like it wasn't treated like you're playing on our song etc etc. like it was viewed more as just like friends hanging out, doing something cool, um, and being very lax about it. And that mindset I'm very conscious of when approaching um whether it's like Manu like you mentioned for that video um or even like the guitar chats and stuff like if I was I guess like trying to do it the proper way if a band was like coming to Australia and I wanted to do one of my guitar chat episodes with them. If I was doing it the proper and smart way, I would be hitting up a PR agency and emailing them first and being like, "Hey, I want I have this YouTube series blah blah blah blah blah blah blah." And sometimes like I do have to do that if it's a very very highprofile artist. But it's usually like beyond the point where I don't think I would have got it anyway. But being like modern metal core and you know my audience being I guess like really focused on that um and that niche and everything that surrounds it through the music to the guitars to the gear. Um most of the time I just message those guys directly on Instagram. Um and if I'm lucky they're uh already we're already following each other. We've already spoken a couple times over stories and stuff like that. So, when I be like, "Hey, I saw you coming to Australia. Do you want to do a guitar chat thing, it's it's so chill." Like, I literally rock up to the venue, uh, people can attest to this. I pull up to a venue with a backpack, a tripod, and a camera in it, and I've never met the person before. And I be, "Hey, dude. What's up? Let's like, what's going on? How's Australia? Whenever you're ready, let me know. I'll set up in the corner, and you just like come with your guitar, and um, we can it will take 10 minutes." and they're like, "Yeah, sure." So, like they're doing soundcheck, they're um having dinner before the show and I'm like setting up my camera and stuff and then they literally just sit down next to me. We chat about the guitars and by that point, I think >> the conversation and and the whole way that that has come to be has been very natural and very friendly and not like a business exchange. And after those interviews, it's always like it's not just like, "Oh, thanks. See you later." It's like, "Oh, no, like come hang out. Like, let's this is good. Like, we can we can chill." Um, and that's what I want it to be. I I don't want it to be seen as like um this this huge thing where like, you know, we have these like proper microphones and it's like a full PR thing cuz I know how much some bands hate doing that stuff. Um, and I and I don't want it to be like that. I just want it to be two BS sitting on a couch talking about the guitar and that's it. >> Totally. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the approach I've taken a lot with with this podcast and all my interviews and stuff. It's like there's there's some people that I'm like, you know, that I think it might be out of reach that like I take the shot anyways and I try to I make like a pitch essentially to them via email, but it's all it's all like super still even then it's kind of super chill. And it's funny a lot of the times when I'm like concerned that someone's going to say no because they're it's like a cloud thing or like they're too big and important or whatever. Most of the time they say yes. I think I only had one rejection out of like 70 people I've interviewed or something. >> Yeah, >> most people in the music industry are pretty awesome. >> Yeah, 100%. 100%. >> Like they they want to help out other artists and they they want to spread their spread their words and and just like kind of help people out and and talk and shoot the [ __ ] Um, so and I think once you're once you're around for a while too, you do start to realize like you have a you already have bumped into people many times without even necessarily knowing it. Like you're like, "Oh, like I just heard about this person, man. They'd be they'd be a great guest in my thing. Oh, we already follow each other on Instagram. Whoa." Right. It's just because you're operating in this sphere. >> Exactly. Right. Yeah. In your case, it's it's modern metal and it's like guitar focused stuff, but like it's the exact same thing if it's like a EDM producer who's like really active in the Ableton Live community online. It's like they'll start noticing they they interact with all these people. It's like, "Oh yeah, I played a show with this dude. I did a collaboration with this guy and like he's friends with this dude who I'd love to chat with." >> That happens all the time and it's it's never forced. I mean, sometimes it is, but a lot of times it's it's just like casual like, "Hey, sup uh >> want you want to like work on a song or something?" It's like, "Yeah, [ __ ] yeah." Now, how does um kind of pivoting back to the touring side, >> what is what did the economics of touring look like for you, because I would imagine it's going to echo what what it looks like for a lot of bands, whether they're in metal or whatever. >> Uh yeah, the economics of touring for me personally at this point is like completely [ __ ] Like, it's so bad. Um, and I I'm not stupid. Like I know why it's bad. Um, obviously like you know things are more expensive now, cost of living, etc. But like just to for example, like there's a there's a tour happening in I can't say for who cuz I don't think we're actually going to get it, but we were like we sent a a pitch in and like we're trying to like figure out what it would cost us if we did it and stuff like that. It's happening like sometime quarter one next year in Australia. Um >> because I'm I guess like a solo artist and I'm paying you know a day rate to band members crew that already makes it exponentially more difficult being like coming from one person. In a band scenario it's a little bit different cuz everyone can like share the cost but because it's like my music my project it's only fair that I kind of cover everything. Um, so it's not only like day rates, but it's also flights and accommodation and car hire and a like touring in Australia sucks as it is because um if anyone is watching that doesn't know the the three to four places that people play in in Australia are what like Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide, and then maybe maybe maybe like one in every 10 bands play Perth. Um, and all of those cities that I mentioned in order are at least a 9-hour drive away from each other. So, >> if I recall, um, basically all the big cities in Australia are just all along the coastline and the whole middle of Australia is like >> kind of desert. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, because it's just like in summer it's like it's not inhabitable. I'm sure that one day it will we will start going towards the center, but there's just like barely any water sources and it's hot. Like it'll it'll reach Hang on, let me convert this in real time. Uh it could reach >> for my 80% American eyes. >> Yeah, it it could go up like above 120 Fahrenheit. Like it's Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's hot. It's hot. And there's no like wind from the coast cuz you're just like in the middle of nothing. >> So that's why >> traveling is is tough. And you're in Melbourne. >> I'm in Adelaide. So already that's tough because most bands will when bands come to Australia, they either go like our way. So they start in Adelaide or Perth and then go around like up to the right or they start in Brisbane and go Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, and they kind of like work their way work their way down the coastline cuz that's the most cost effective way to do it. But already there like you're either driving for nine hours um every time like getting up at like six in the morning or no sleep as it is. It's it's not only um like almost just as expensive by the time you account for the car hire in petrol, but it's quite dangerous too. Like there's a lot of you're driving in the dark um like in the early hours of the morning, kangaroos are flying across the road cuz you're kind of in the outback and Yeah. And it's a full thing. Like people hit kangaroos a lot here cuz it only kind of happens >> I've heard that it's kind of like I live in the New England and we got deers everywhere. >> Yeah. It's kind of like that where it's like yeah you won't see them in the like uh suburban areas but as soon as you start driving from one city to another and you're on like a highway they just kind of fly out and you can't really do anything about it. So um for that reason for our band anyway we fly but most bands who kind of do it seriously do fly. There is ways to make it cheaper like you know velocity credit cards and stuff like that. Um where you can I don't know maybe you spend one tour on a credit card get 60,000 points and then like kind of keep rinsing that to make the flights a little bit cheaper and stuff. There is ways around it. We did that for the headline tour that we just had in June. Um, but then even still like all the gear, you know, I I guess it I can only speak for myself, but when we're playing live, like it's already a given that we're going to lose money. So to me, it's like, you know, it the way I treat it is like it's a business expense. Like because it's my project and you know, what people see and hear is going to be tied to my name, it's in my best interest to kind of make it the best that it can be. So, the difference between me losing $1,000 and $3,000 means barely anything because losing that extra 2,000 is >> a complete time code show, a better sounding drum kit cuz we'll fly our own kit and all that stuff and all these like little variables that will make people remember our show better. Um, >> and make the perception of the project again not be tied to, oh, it's the YouTube guy that has a live show. I wonder what it's going to sound like and be like, "Oh, no. This is actually like a proper band with like we we tour with the front of house and everything's all timecoded and >> we spend a lot of time trying to get it to sound and feel and like the narrative of the show even like play out as as best as we can. Like it's not meant to be a YouTube project going live. It's meant to be what you would expect if you were just seeing a band play." Um, and and for me, like the economics of it is tough, but it's it helps because then again, like it's all connected as you said, like if we spend a little bit of extra money getting one of the shows filmed or the uh the set recorded and stuff like that, I can then put it on YouTube and then that's just fuel for the fire for like when like for example in our like in my electronic press kit, it's every tool we've done with footage for every single one. So, if any um agent wants to be like, "Oh, I wonder what they sounded like in 2023 with animals as leaders or whatever, bang, there's a video on my YouTube channel of what it sounded like and looked like or even if it was as recent as um the unprocessed one or even the headliner one in June, there's video archives of every single one, which is expensive to do in the moment, but it's there, you know, for the next thing." You could honestly probably put that stuff up on like a Patreon and charge people to watch old tours. >> Yeah. I mean I I I guess so, but like I don't know. I I think for me I just can't be bothered to be completely honest like doing it like that. Uh I'm happy to just put up on YouTube. But you are right. Like there are ways if there are a lot more ways that I could be like monetizing I guess like my brand so to speak. But I I guess half the time I don't do it because again I I I do I am very conscious of like that um I guess like >> the perception. >> Yeah, the perception the relatability aspect like I just I don't want to be locking everything behind a pay wall now because I don't know there's like a certain follower account or anything. It's it's never been about that for me anyway. >> Yeah. Well, on a similar note, like for when it comes to the touring, um, if you had to kind of guess like what what chunk of the touring money that comes in, obviously like there's all these expenses that make it in the red, what what if it's from like the guarantee you're getting from the the the playing the show versus like merch sales at the show? Like in >> Sorry, go on. Do you guys do good with with like merch sales, whether that's t-shirts or physical music or whatever? Or do you do VIP packages or or and like if so, does that not do well or does it do quite well? It >> it really depends. Like there's times where we've been on a tour package where we're like, "Yeah, like we're so similar to this band, like people will like our music, like merch is going to kill it." And then it does okay, like it doesn't really go crazy. But then there's been times where we play where we're like, "Oh, it's not like a perfect fit. maybe people be a bit eh but then it does really well. So it's it's just hard like there's a lot of factors especially in Australia like cost of living at the moment is a joke. So one trend that I have noticed over time is that well number one guarantees stay the same over the course of 3 years but merch prices went up and less people bought merch. Um, when bands come to Australia and even like Australian bands when they tour and they do uh uh like whether it's regionals or like uh domestic interstate tours, they will most likely be a VIP package which >> in most cases is like you know um meet and greet, photo op, uh lanyards, all that stuff. And um we did do that for the the June one, the the the headliner that I did, but I wanted it to be a little bit more I guess like it have a little bit more substance to it. Um because I I've seen I'm sure you can you've heard this a million times too, like some of those meet and greets are really good. Some of them are like the worst thing ever and just like it really looks like a cash grab and that sucks. Like I I don't want it to be like that. Um so for the VIP package for ours it was like obviously entry to the show. Um, and then I was I got in touch with Jackson. I was like, "Hey, do you think you could give up like a Surf caster to give away to one of the people that buy VIP?" And they're like, "Yeah, sure." I was like, "Oh, sweet." Um, again, one of those things I was like, "I don't think they'd actually say yes." But then they end up saying yes. I was like, "Oh, okay, cool." So, there was that. >> Jackson's got infinite money apparently. >> Well, I mean, yeah. Well, like after doing I I purposely like chose that guitar because like I I did the the video for it and all like the advertisers for that specific guitar and I was like, "Oh, like this would go really hand in hand." Like I think this would be a good idea. And then like it all came around the same time and it was Yeah. Again, it was just like the perfect storm. But yeah, that happened and then I did like a pre-show hourong master class before every show too. Um so that was and then like of course like poster um etc etc. first access to merch. Um, so all of that stuff was tied within the VIP ticket um, along with entry to the show. Um, but you know to be I I'll say the number because it doesn't matter if I say it like most bands that play support tours in Australia because there's kind of like a monopoly/juopoly in Australian like metal market at the moment. Like um most bands that I've spoken to get paid anywhere between like for a opening slot for a bigger band like maybe between 200 AUD to like 400 500 if they're lucky. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's nuts. It's nuts. Um >> what size venues are these? >> Uh it could be anywhere from like 200 to like 800 a thousand. Um, >> like knowing that that's like a rock metal thing means most of it is bands which have o over four members >> than sharing. I mean granted it's an opening slot and whatever but still damn. Okay. >> Yeah. So, and then you combine that with like the flying and all that stuff because I like it is what it is. Like it's business. It's like of course like if a massive band comes and there's 25 bands that want to play for them, people will probably end up like I've done like I've seriously done pitches to bands where I was like I'll play for free. Like I don't care. Like I really want to be on this package. Um we haven't played for free but like I like even now like if the right opportunity came I would do it 100% because I again like I said you're going to lose money anyway. what's an extra like like three shows at 300 a piece? It's like 900 bucks. Like okay, maybe if one night does well on merch or we sell the merch after the tour. Um like it's actually worth it to play for nothing now because what we will reap from that is better which isn't a great way to think obviously and this is a whole like thing in the music industry at the moment. But again the way that I see it and like I said at the start with that minute advice it's like you either do it or you don't. Do you know what I mean? You have to like some people just >> honestly I think for the right opportunity that that's fantastic. I mean uh I don't know if it was this current tour or the previous one but um you know the band Thornhill. >> Yeah. >> Also from Australia I believe >> but they um they did a tour opening for Sleep Token. >> They were supposed to tour with all these other awesome bands but they bailed in the tour last second because they got the Sleep Token tour >> which sucks in some ways. They had to cancel a tour that people already bought tickets for. But like from the a growth perspective for a band, it's a huge opportunity. And honestly, stylistically, that's a pretty >> Yeah. >> solid fit. And uh you know, I don't know what they're getting paid and who no one knows but them, but like >> them doing that for free would they probably >> make a killing on merch. Just they're way smaller than Sleep Token. >> Sleep Token is like I don't know. I actually don't. Let me look it up real quick. They like half a million monthly listeners and obviously Spotify is not not everything. >> Um, Sleep Token's got 5 million. >> Okay. >> Right. So, just in that perspective, they're 10 times larger. But honestly, I feel like from a global awareness perspective, Sleep Token's like a hundred times bigger. >> Yeah. >> Like people who never listen to metal ever know who Sleep Token >> is. Like my wife will be playing her playlist and it'll be like Backstreet Boys, Disney Music, Caramel by Sleep Token. >> Crazy. Yeah. >> Play. So it's they've kind of penetrated the mainstream in that way. Um and like that's for you the the equivalent obviously Sleep would be kind of an odd fit. >> Um but like any big instrumental project would probably be like fantastic growth opportunity. Now obviously better if it's paying but like let's say I don't even know who would be who would be the best fit. I don't know. Periphery actually pretty open for Periphery would probably be pretty pretty great because like the fan base is like they're probably gonna like what you do, you know? >> Yeah. No, that obviously that's the dream show. But yeah, if Push came to shove, um, yes, you are right. I would play that for free. Um, because for me that's beyond like business. That's personal. Like I would just love to do it. Um, but you know, bands that have come through that I guess like would be a a great fit that we already have, I guess, played under like Animals or like we did a show with Intervals when they came. Um, >> and like even bands like, you know, Caligula's Horse, they're Australian. I'm not sure if you've heard of them. Um, >> but yeah, it's super >> I didn't know how you say their name. >> Caligula's Horse. Is that >> Caligulas? Yeah. I never I never guessed. I just saw it and I was like, They're a horse. >> Yeah. Know, they're sick. I love those guys. They're they're good friends now. Um but yeah, it's like, you know, playing under those bands. Um like I said, there's so many bands in Australia that would were going for those opportunities. Um, >> yeah. >> And I think at the time, for example, like with intervals, it was uh going to NAM that same year earlier in the year and actually hanging out with Aaron in person for the first time and building that relationship with him. Um, which then got us over the line for him to be like, "Yeah, I want Ke to open." And again, it's like we were talking about before, that initial thing of hanging out at NAM wouldn't have even happened if I didn't know so and so and so and so and so and so, you know? So, it's all >> uh I guess like if cuz I was thinking like with that minute advice like what advice do I give? But I think like another thing that is definitely worth mentioning is like it's a slow burn. Um cuz a lot of people seem to think it kind of just happens and I know it's very cliche to say that but it is true. Like I do notice it in the conversations that I have with people like you saying 8 years like I was like oh wow it has been 8 years you know. Um and I like I never think about that number at all. It's just kind of like what's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing? Um, and then eventually six months later after you've done the next thing 15 more times, um, the fruits of your labor six months to go start to show in all the stuff that we've been talking about, I guess. >> How do you think about making content? Like do you do you have like a schedule, a plan, some type of process you go through? because you know it obviously there's the doing but then over time you come up with systems for how you're going to do it and at what frequency you're going to do it. So like I guess in one note what what's your like content schedule but then like how do you approach what topic am I going to do? What what's my hook for this this Instagram reel or Tik Tok video? >> Yeah. Um so for me to be completely honest these days there is very little schedule for me. I guess there is a schedule, but like it's not like I sit down and plan out my days and be like, "Okay, this I'm going to do Instagram. This I'm going to do Tik Tok or whatever." Um, >> but what I like to do is try to keep it to like one YouTube video a week or like maybe four in a month spread out. Like if there's some days that carry over because I'm on an embargo and I have to wait till this specific day to post, it's like, "All right, whatever. So be it." But as long as it kind of hits that like four videos a month kind of thing, I'm I'm happy. Um, as far as like what I'm going to do for those videos, uh, most of the time these days is purely like circumstantial. Like if something for me is like coming out, like if Neuro has another plugin or a QC update, like they will get in touch and be like, "Hey, like this is coming out like do you want to do a video?" Be like, "Sure." And it kind of works out most of the time. And then other times things will just pop up um that like I can quickly um not quickly but like you know get a video out in a couple days on like for example that um I recently did a video talking about like a an ever tune that I put into my Ibanz Mashuga guitar. So >> that was very like very it all happened very fast like within a week and a half that like that was done with Everune sent over installed sent back. Um, but in in that time it was like making I guess like the the script for the video and how the video is going to flow and and how it's going to be and stuff like that. So that when it comes time to editing, it's just slap this here, slap this there and and and export it. For Instagram, it's much more lax. Uh, I kind of just post whenever I feel inspired to post. if I do do like YouTube videos and I can get like an excerpt of me playing from that video um or something or even just film from scratch something that's adjacent to that YouTube video that I put out um I would do it but the content strategy for Instagram is much more different to YouTube in the sense that like YouTube especially these days like everyone knows that views are down on YouTube it's not a secret but in my experience um say like 3 four years ago maybe I would get 30 to 40,000 views on a video and that would be like a good average. Um, and now these days like you know it might be around that 10k mark, but I think that the 10k that's there now we're still there back then and those were the most like >> potent um viewers. >> Like four years ago it was there's a surge instrument pick up. >> Yeah, cuz everyone's at home everyone had nothing else to do. So YouTube was like flying and you know then the restrictions got lifted and everyone was just like going back to work and then actually being >> put away my guitar and go back to work. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not even that. I think it's just time. Like people just have a lot more things they need to worry about than sitting down and watching YouTube. But on the the counterpoint to that is that the people that do actively go on their computer, type in YouTube, look at your video, click on it, and watch it. Like these days they're there for a reason, you know? So, if you make that video and you know, uh, for example, like from a business perspective, like if you have like an affiliate link in there, I don't I haven't really noticed much like much of a drop in stuff like that because again, in my experience, those 10,000 views were there 3 years ago. Um, and they're still just as conscious, still just as potent. With Instagram, it's a little different. It's like it's more like getting that content and spinning the narrative and the direction of it and how it's edited and how it comes across to the viewer to fit what goes well on Instagram. Much more short form, much more brain rot. Like a good example of that is like the the Manu video on YouTube. That's a 20inute video of Manu like showing me how to play like him and and like going through some of the stuff in his plugin and stuff like that. on Instagram. It's an 11 second clip of a complete like narrative that I fabricated from scratch to like kind of give off the vibe that he was like teaching me way too fast and it's like, "Oh yeah, you know how to do this thing." And then just like does this crazy stuff straight after it. But the reality is is that like that was cut from like 5 minutes of footage um apart and stuck together. thorough caption on there, throw like voice captions on there, and now all of a sudden that same video has now been repurposed for Instagram. That video is doing quite well, I think, from memory. Um, in relation to >> 173,000 views in 5 days on Instagram. And um, is it not on Tik Tok or you different posting schedule for Tik Tok? >> Yeah, t Tik Tok honestly like I kind of just gave up on Tik Tok. I I what I do for Tik Tok and shorts now, what I'm trying to do anyway um is cuz we could talk about this forever, the whole like posting frequently versus posting quality, but like for me, Instagram, I'm much happier to post more frequently on there cuz I think that that as far as like where people want to see my content in a short form kind of way and a much more personal way, Instagram is the place to be. Um, but things like YouTube Shorts and Tik Tok, what I'll do most of the time is if I post on Instagram and it goes well on Instagram, then I know it's bulletproof. It it will go well on YouTube shorts and and Tik Tok if I put it on there. Um, because in my experience, like Tik Tok is very inconsistent. You know, you think some videos will do very well and they don't. And I I like in all honesty, the the number on Tik Tok in terms of followers is higher than any other um >> metric ever. But it means nothing. >> More Tik Tok followers than Instagram followers, but >> your Tik Tok numbers are way less than your Instagram. Obviously, the videos are different because you post in there, but like >> Tik Tok, you're mostly averaging between one and 5,000 views, I would say. >> Yeah. >> Occasionally get one to pop off, but Instagram it's like everything is tens of thousands with a lot in a good amount in hundreds of Ks. >> Yeah. And I'm very aware of that. And I I just think that that's because again, you know, people that are on Instagram are much more connected to you personally because, you know, it it's it's been around longer. Um so anyone that was following from 5 years ago that's still seeing it is there for a reason. Whereas Tik Tok that the nature of it is kind of just like scroll and forget. Like that number on Tik Tok again means nothing to me because 70,000 followers doesn't really account for the views. It doesn't account for nothing. like if I post something on Instagram, it's so much more potent um and concentrated and I'd rather put my eggs in that basket. But for the sake of posting on Tik Tok, if something again does go well on Instagram, like that Manu video, like I'll probably just post that up on Tik Tok and and redo the caption so that I'm using Tik Tok's like native editor and stuff like that and really like going through all the the hoops to to make it do as well as it possibly can. Um and if it goes well, it goes well. If it doesn't, it doesn't. We We just wait for the next one. I Tik Tok for me in for my niche and my average like viewer base, like their age and the demographic, like I just don't think it's there. Um, and even if it was, I don't think that it would help my I guess like the perception that other people would have of me and my content cuz Tik Tok isn't very serious. And um it's it it I think maybe I'm just like in my own head about it, but I think it's harder for people to take you seriously when all you do is post Tik Toks. Um like you see it all the time like >> uh artists who are very big on Tik Tok. They have hundreds of thousands of followers. They post nothing related to their music. It's like some stupid funny video. Millions of views, hundreds of thousands of likes. As soon as they put a tour poster up, it's like 200 views, you know? Um it's it's insane how much the drop off is. Like it's not that because that does happen on Instagram, but it's not that significant. So that's why I I'm more than happy to kind of like do both on Instagram. Like I know that from using Instagram enough, and I'm sure you can attest to this as well. It's like if I was to post a tour poster, the people that see it, even though it's like maybe a quarter of the engagement, it's showing the people that it actually matters to. Um, and the people that like would have seen it anyway if had it popped off and probably will go to that show. Um, but if it's a bigger video and it reaches more people, then it's just Yeah, it's all it's a win-win in in my eyes. >> I did a comparison between Tik Tok and Instagram for like similarly performing videos, like the same video. I found some videos that roughly equal and compared the percentage of follower views between each. >> Yeah. And for the couple videos I looked at in this criteria, Instagram was 80% views by followers. >> Yeah. >> 20% views from non-f followers. And Tik Tok was the exact opposite. It was 80% nonfollowers, 20% followers. >> Now, there was some discrepancies. Like basically when I looked at a video on Instagram that popped off and was an outlier, obviously it had to go to new people because, >> you know, there's not new people there. And and and Tik Tok has another metric that is actually very interesting. Instagram doesn't. And it's not just views from followers, it's views from new viewers versus views from returning viewers. >> And the interesting was even though it was 80% nonfollowers, it was 60% viewers. Like 60% of the viewers already had watched me before. >> Seems a lot of people on Tik Tok don't really follow creators. They just let the algorithm reserve their videos. Um, which Instagram like followers, you know, you're not guaranteed to reach all your followers, but it seems like you're more guaranteed to reach some of them. >> Yeah. >> Whereas on Tik Tok, it's like followers kind of don't matter at all, which to your point about saying you don't really care as much if that's 70,000 followers on Tik Tok as you do that 50k on Instagram. >> Yeah. That 50k on Instagram to me is like it's worth everything. Like that's like that's my that to me is >> worth more than even the YouTube subscriber count >> these days. Oh really? >> Um to me personally anyway. Um like maybe not so much like 2 3 years ago on YouTube but for the where the YouTube is now in my case compared to the Instagram I'd like to say that my Instagram is a bit more >> dialed in and engaged. Um whereas on the YouTube it's it's I'm not trying to reach a new audience on YouTube. Um I'm trying to cater to this niche and the audience that was there from the start. It's for it's a like every video is more or less like a homage to like the oldtime viewers that have been there for a while. Um and if it does happen to reach a new audience then you know that's even better. But for Instagram it's kind of like it's both depending on what the context is. If you were what what what was like the dream guitar you would recommend to someone if I'm like pick me out a guitar that's upwards of four grand. >> Oh like upwards of four grand. >> Well like up to up to >> up to sorry. Okay. And that's US. So there's a little more playroom. Um >> so it's like basically like your dream guitar and I don't care if it's six, seven or eight strings or like >> uh if if it was my dream guitar. Um, honestly, it wouldn't exist. I' I'd have to like change a couple things. Um, but the the closest thing that would go to it is probably that Josh Smith signature guitar. There would be things that I would like, for example, I get this question all the time like, oh, what would your signature guitar be? It's like, well, for me, you know, if money was no object and I could get it at like the Jackson Custom Shop and it would be readily available for anyone to get, it would be somewhere between like 27 to 28 in of scale, seven string, stainless steel frets, 20-in flat fretboard radius. You can tell I've thought about this a lot. Double hump bucker uh with bare knuckle uh juggernauts. I really like I've I've tried so many, but I always go back to the the juggernauts. Um they just have this like mid-range thump that's very apparent. It's like squawky, which works like really well for the extended range stuff. Um, like banquetune bridge, uh, one volume pot, fiveway selector, uh, bolt-on, roasted maple neck, rich light fretboard, cuz that's like way more durable. Um, what else? I'm trying to think. >> Yeah, you really thought about it. Oh, dude. I thought about every detail. >> The fretboard radius. >> 100%. >> I don't even think I I don't know the fretboard radiuses of my guitars. I don't even think they honestly might be the same. I've never >> down to the like the nut width and the heel width like of the the neck. Like the one I didn't know this until like years later, but the juggernaut models the nut width is like slightly smaller than your average guitar. Um, which is why when I played the seven string variant for the first time, because I'd played seven strings before that, but they were from other brands and like the neck always felt like really wide, especially down at the heel. It was like a baseball bat. I was like, what's going on? Um, but then with the Juggernaut, it just felt so like slim and sleek and I was like, what's going on? And then I looked it up and the nut width and the hipwidth are actually smaller than you what most other brands offer. So that would be part of it, too. Um, >> so that means like the strings are a little closer together. >> Closer together. Yeah. Um, which makes it not feel as crazy to do like big runs and like especially again like when you with like all the modern metal stuff cuz you're playing so much down there on the the lower strings. Um, going between them is like a bit weird. Like for example like the the Mishuga eight string that I have, the Ibanz one. By the time you get down to like on a 30in scale down to that like heel, it's like a skateboard. like it's so wide. Um, and it's not particularly enjoyable to play, but it sounds great. Um, so I'm willing to put up with it. But, um, that would be my dream guitar. So, it probably end up being like a custom shop. But, if it was for someone else, it would like the recommendation would change a lot on what they're looking for. I I always like to like find out what it is they like. Do they like sevens? Do they like sixes? Do they like eights? What type of music are they playing? Um, so I guess like we could use you as an example. So like what what's your what's your um I guess uh what am I trying to say? Like what are you looking for in a guitar? >> Yeah, I mean mine I would say pro I typically go with eight strings. Um I would be inclined to if I get a six it would be like a always staying in drop C probably is a thing. Um, so I probably say an eight string probably my default just because I'm I'm I I hate having to like switch guitar. So like I I just I like have one guitar here that I can play six string stuff and seven and eight stuff on. So just kind of convenience, but also I like having the flexibility. >> I really like headless, which is why I only have one headless guitar, but I've I've loved it just from like a weight perspective and comfortability and everything. Um, which is why I've kind of loved the Strandberg so much. >> Yeah. But like I'm fine without, you know, a headless guitar. Honestly, if in a dream scenario, it'd probably be if there was a way to do a headless ever tune. >> Yeah. >> And multiscale multiscale headless ever tune would be >> that would be insane. Yeah. No, >> they haven't invented that yet. >> They've got they've got multiscale ever tunes now. You can definitely get them multis scale. >> Mike Stringer had a custom multiscale ever tune. Yeah, >> to answer your question, I'd say probably eight string and I typically do like varies between like alternative metal >> um or like progy metal stuff is probably what I play most of the time. So like I don't I don't care about a tremolo. I've never actually had a guitar with a tremolo on it. >> Um >> I have one guitar with an Evertune and I like it. That guitar I ended up going with kind of like not the best brand I think. Yeah, >> the the neck came kind of shitty like the the action like I adjusted the action after I got it and it's like it still buzzes and if I make it not buzz it's like just very uncomfortable. >> Yeah. Okay, I guess. Yeah. Um >> yeah, eight string is always difficult um for me personally because I think that like well a standard eight string is an F sharp. So it's like F# B and then E to E. Um >> drop E. >> So yeah, exactly right. So most people drop it and then by the time you drop it, like it's there's no string pack in the world that accounts for that being dropped to E, which is why companies like the string source are so great because you can figure it out on a calculator and get what you want. But the main issue with eight strings, I think, is that they're actually like most production brands aren't actually long enough to support the the length. I don't know where we got this like 27 in number from, but like the reality is is like it's not enough. um like even especially when you play hard and and pick it super hard. So I think that anything that's like above a 27 from memory I actually think there's a Jackson multis scale eight string that's 27 and a half on the top. So it does help with the tension there. And you >> apparently 28 >> 28. Oh, okay. True. >> So it's 26.5 to 28 apparently, says Google. >> Right. So yeah, that that makes sense actually. Um with the I'm thinking like with that Jackson one for you specifically, you could get that custom ever tune retrofitted in there, which would mean that you wouldn't have to run as thick of a gauge. cuz on all of my ever tuned guitars, um, half the battle with like tuning low is obviously like the pitch drift. Um, but then it's also like the playability of it, like how much it flops. For me personally, like on how I play, again, I'm going to get super nerdy. I find that like uh if I'm using a non- evertuned guitar, the point where like it feels playable and it feels fine is like 16 pounds of tension and above. But to actually get it to stop doing the pitch drift, >> yeah, I have to start hitting like 20. Um, but having the Ever Tune, it kind of cancels that out. So, I can like put a gauge of string on there that will give me that 16 pounds of tension and the Ever Tune will just like sort out the pitch drift. So, it's the best of both worlds. So, um, in that case, you know, you could probably have an 80 gauge in a 27 1/2 scale in E and it would sit around that 16 pounds attention and then you just like let all the other strings follow and it would feel really nice. >> Um, and you know that comes with like Fishman's and all that stuff. So, that would be for you. That would be my my recommendation I think if you're looking for that multiscale ever tune. >> Sick. >> Yeah. >> Well, sweet. Well, thank you. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming on the channel. >> Of course. Thanks for having me, dude. This is great fun. >> Yeah, absolutely. Everyone, links will be down in the description and um yeah, thanks for watching. Nice guys.